Very well put. Ive thought the same things but he puts it very plainly. I like it.

Interesting thoughts.
j

OMG! I agree to 100% with Daniel Madison!

pretty good... i like what D+M said about whats wrong with the art today.... nice one D+M

great point I agree

EDIT: My views have changed.

-Doug

Finally someone said it.Annoying old magicians trying to act cool in the new generation. Daniel rulez. Yes with a Z that how we do it now. lol

Why is everyone still so worried about magic being "wands and top hats and tuxedos"?

Daniel said "underground magic is more... respectful to the spectators compared to traditional magic". How is tradtional magic not respectful to the spectators? Just because they use rabbits and sponge balls?

What kind of "newer magic" can be found at Theory11? I would say almost all, or at least many of the tricks sold on this site have a lot of basis on old tricks. Think about Prophet, Digital Dissolve, TnR, Control, Distortion... Isn't that taking old tricks and adapting it to the new generation, something that Daniel says is "too forced"?

Why does this video reek of an "we hate traditional magicians, because tradtional magicians hate us" attitude? Are you sure "tradtional magicians" hate us? Are you sure we hate "tradtional magic"?

Are you sure our audiences would hate "wands, top hats and tuxedos"?

I mean, it's every magician's (oh sorry, that would be "underground magician's") own choice to express magic in their own way, I respect that, but I just have doubts over what you said in this video.

- harapan. magic!

I completly agree with everything that you just said!!! So true!!!

In addition and to answer harapan, there are no worries about the top-hat generation, top-hats, wands, tuxedos etc are examples of the stigmas in magic that I believe provide a wall between the performer and spectator, these stigmas carry certain imbed messages such as ‘I’m a magician,’ and in turn the title ‘magician’ carries more stigmas such as, ‘I can do things that you can’t, hey everybody, come take a look at how good I am’ – maybe that last bit is exaggerated a little but you get the idea. Magic shouldn’t be about a superior being but unfortunately because of the attitudes of traditional magicians, it is.

Underground magic has its own place, as a separate entity, and we’re trying to set our own image and attitude which will allow new and better-representative and positive stigmas. We’re finding our own league and following our own rules and one of the most important things, in my opinion, is to take the ego away from the performer, as in my experiences, the connection made between the performer and the audience can be the most powerful part of the act. To build rapport and gain that solid connection we cannot post ourselves above our audience, we’re not better than them; we are a part of them, they are the stars as they apply the life to the effect, so respect for them is vital. Traditional magicians tend to demand respect for the trick, our aims are to deserve respect for our act and ability to make magic a human experience; we’re not saying ‘we’re magicians’ we’re saying ‘we’re normal people just like you and we have something interesting to show you.’

Regarding the traditional stigmas, I do think they are disrespectful; I always have, even as a child. My granddad was a famous magician in Russia many years ago and as a kid I never had any interest in any of his tricks as I saw them as patronising as they demanded me to believe that a rabbit would mysteriously appear from an empty top-hat, I thought ‘why a rabbit? Why a top-hat? Why not make money appear...

...from an empty wallet when you’re walking down the road? Why dress like a waiter?’ And then to see a thousand other magicians doing exactly the same thing, wearing exactly the same clothes, with a white rabbit, and a black wand… none of these magicians have done anything to favour their acts, they’re simply ‘magicians’ who do ‘magician’ things with rabbits etc… No creativity, no originality.

I think it’s a little bit impressive that a rabbit can be produced from an empty hat, but it’s nothing more than clever, it’s very pointless and to call that ‘magic’ is disrespectful to the audience as magic is supposed to be a wonderful and enchanting thing. How enchanting can a fat rabbit in a hat be? If that magician explained that he had walked around on stage for a half hour with a rabbit sat on his head under his hat chewing his hair I would be more impressed. Magic should be at least a little bit relevant. How relevant is a rabbit to anything the magician is doing on stage? An eagle or a death-cobra would have got a lot more respect (just kidding, although I do hate rabbits.)

Lets look at a modern underground magician… Tom Isaacson will go out there with real people, turning dollars into hundreds without dressing it up with a wand or stupid patter, it’s real, it’s more powerful and it’s absolutely relevant. If Tom had turned the dollars into rabbits using a wand and saying ‘abracadabra’ he would have been laughed at, maybe even insulted.

You are right that we have taken a lot of old concepts, but we have improved on them and been able to adapt them to our style which I feel is absolutely respectful to magic as an art older than any of us.

We’re not trashing traditional magic; we’re simply saying that T11 is modern, up-to-date… relevant and we’re taking on the title ‘underground magic’ as OPPOSED to ‘traditional magic’ and NOT AGAINST it. We have utter respect for a lot traditional magicians and with the T11 releases we always have an underlying subtext...

... that says ‘traditional magic is good, but can be improved and adapted to a modern performance style.’

I’m not saying that the audience WILL feel disrespected by the traditions; I’m saying that from experience, respecting them with the human touch will go so much farther, for the performer and his reputation, which ultimately creates the stigmas of his generation.

And you are correct, it’s at the magicians’ peril how he decides to perform and express his magic, and to wrap up, we have no problem with traditional magic, but the obstacle created by traditional magic is a problem, and we’re here to do our best to solve it to better the art of modern magic.

True
d+M

Wow...Daniel just summed up all the words and feelings I have towards magic in two and a half minutes.

@ harapanong You should check out show off 3 by Brian Tudor and see his opinion on old school magicians. In comparison with Brian Tudor, Daniel is quite gentle on the subject.

Harapan, we're not rebelling and we're not taking anything away from them, it was traditional magic that led us to create T11, a place for people who aren't accepted by traditional magicians and hopefully through T11 they will understand our goals and attitudes and the reasons why we want our magic to be different to theirs.
It's not about cool packaging, it's about the presentation of modern magic, modern magic being respectful magic, once again touching on the way it's presented as real, as opposed to the standard tacky patter... We're real people doing amazing magic, we're not a bunch of magicians doing tricks.

I agree with you Sinful, my references to traditional magicians are aimed at those who refuse to accept modern magic and can't adapt ultimately locking their magic in one place not allowing for progression, which doesn't allow the image of magic to improve past the points of all the cliches.

I am not an angry person (or a teenager) (and i love my parents) and am not having a pop at oldies, some of my closest friends are 60 year-old magicians who support Theory11 and are completelly anti-traditional... It's not about age, it's about attitude and how magicians could make magic so much better if they used their skills and knowledge in the right way.

This is a video of me answering questions, I'm not right or wrong, it's my opinion and is in no way an argument. I love to hear and read all of your opinions and i've enjoyed all of your thoughts on this subject. Remember, this doesn't sum Theory11 up in any way, this is merely one of the many things that Theory11 have done very well to confront and combat an ongoing and neverending forum topic.

I'd rather focus on making magic better than spend time trying to justify my reasons why.

True
D

you rock Daniel...

Daniel You rock...

i always looked for a good way to explain what u just did... :) thanks Daniel, very Well put

Tai

Very well said!!!

He knows what the essence of magic really is?!? it's dead! Underground magic forever!!!

i completely agree with Tyler Johnson and D+M.
I have used a lot of older material and have created my own effects inspired from them.But Some of the older magicians wont let you present your magic with your own style but they would push you into that older (tall hats and magic wands as Daniel said))presentation style which i think it is kinde disrespectfull toward the audience.
Also if you respect your spectators and make them understand that you are a normal person much greater reactions are guaranteed.
Daniel might have pushed it much with "magic is dead" as others have said but if you think of it and read the the comments you will see that it is based on true facts and i completely agree with him.
Do not forget that Daniel has created insane effects(like BOUND and MEMENTO) that a lot of older magicianns hadn't even dreamed of.Idont think he would be the great underground artist he is today if he had been influenced by those traditional magicians.

George